.png)
Omnichannel
The Marketing and Business Podcast For Online Entrepreneurs! Learn the best approaches from experts as well as the psychology of what it means to be a human in business!
Omnichannel
Finding the Perfect Marketing Agency: 🚩Red Flags and Green Lights🟢| Vera Firman
What does it take to transform from a sales professional to a digital marketing guru? Join us as we uncover the fascinating journey of Vera, a 14-year veteran in the marketing industry.
Ready to find the right marketing agency for your business? Vera dives into how to identify red and green flags, emphasizing the importance of transparency and realistic expectations. She also talks about the critical long-term mindset required for business success, particularly the necessity of investing in SEO for sustainable growth. Packed with actionable advice, this episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs eager to navigate the complexities of marketing and build successful, enduring businesses.
Follow Vera On Social Media:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1437848327
Instagram: @vera_firman
They don't even have access to their own advertising. They don't know what's going on. Even if you're hiring a marketing agency and you don't understand, it's really easy to fall into the trap and at the end you end up spending so much money and getting zero results On Facebook space.
Speaker 2:Even though you can generate results fairly quickly, I think what's important to understand is that you have to be in it for the long term. Hello everyone, welcome back to the Omni Channel podcast. Today I have Vera with me. She is an amazing agency owner slash digital marketing veteran. I mean, it's been so long for you, vera, I don't even know it's been years, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been so long for you where I don't even know, uh, it's been years, right? Yeah, it's been um 14 years. Actually. I'm a bit, you know, in shock myself how fast the time is running. I'm still not that old, right? No, you're gorgeous, thank you. So, yeah, I've been in marketing basically um most of my um life, most of my grown-up life, I would say. And that's all I could do actually. So ask me anything about marketing, I can answer you.
Speaker 2:So how did you get into marketing? I'm very curious to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my first job was actually when I started as a sales and the company where I was working. They didn't have any marketing in place at all and they wanted me to penetrate into different markets in different country, and without having online marketing it wasn't possible. And at that time I had a good opportunity because we had our team for IT. So we built CRM, in-house CRM, and I was, you know, started to learn marketing, started to implement all the online processes in place, because it was really horrendous when they wanted customers from another countries but they had like 13 pages agreements to sign and that's obviously not possible. So we had to implement. It was financial services. So we had to implement, uh, you know, uh, personal area for each client online, uh, signatures for their proposals, and obviously we need to start doing digital marketing. So that's how it's all started. And then I felt like I enjoyed it more. So I moved from sales to marketing and till now, I am in marketing.
Speaker 2:I love that. And what did you originally study? I'm very curious to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, originally, I studied economics and finance and actually when I started working for a financial company, that's what actually hit me. That's when, again, I went and gained a diploma in digital marketing, because I felt, like you know, I need some more knowledge. But in marketing, it's always learning because it's evolving. Every day there's new tools, new future. So it's basically I'm student all my life, to be honest, because every day, in order to catch up, you know, you have to, you have to learn.
Speaker 2:I love that and I can relate with your story. I also started in sales first and I really didn't like sales, like I wasn't your typical call a person trying to convince them to book a call type of you know sales job. You're a typical call a person trying to convince them to book a call type of you know sales job. And that very quickly made me very creative as well, because I had I mean, I hated calls so I had to like, okay, so how do I get them to book a call, but without me calling them? So how do I, how can I generate demand for the clients? And that's kind of how I got into copywriting, into just writing emails that books calls, you know. And then from that on I'm just like sucked into the whole marketing world. I'm like I cannot do sales anymore, I just want marketing. And then I was the same, but I'm so angry with you. This is something you can never stop learning.
Speaker 1:Marketing is an evolving topic yeah, and although you know, um, I moved to marketing but now working for myself, I had to go back to sales and uh, you know, unfortunately there's no. You know, if you run your own business you still need to be involved with yourselves. And really interesting that at the time I didn't really like it, but now I'm kind of enjoying it, it's not as hard for me anymore and I even ended up training some of my customers' staff how to do sales because unfortunately there was some lack. Of you know, marketing is one thing, but if you cannot sell, then marketing is meaningless.
Speaker 2:Of course, then marketing is meaningless, of course. And yeah, I think when you are selling for your own self or for your own agency, it's much easier to do when you're trying to represent someone else. I mean, for me that was kind of different, so I didn't have to try so hard, I didn't have to convince anyone. It was more like organic, was more focusing on them and how to help them.
Speaker 1:So I feel like that's a completely different way to sell, you know, in that way then, yes, it's also depends on you know, are you talking to warm leads, are you talking to cold leads? Because it's totally different. And you know, when I started as a sales, it was really funny because I knew zero about financial world and the next day, like my second day of the job, my bosses put me into the phone conversation with some guys who ended up the potential customers, and I had no clue. You know, like I had, it was. It was funny and not funny at the same time, but eventually I think it was a good learning experience as well.
Speaker 2:Love that and I think, of course, going through these challenges, you became a better person and you know, learn so much in the process.
Speaker 1:Exactly, there's lots of psychology involved. There's lots of things you know you need to learn, not only digital tools. You need to understand the mindset of people or their background, what they do, so you need to take into consideration all these factors yeah, absolutely, and you ended up building your own agency.
Speaker 2:Can you tell the listeners more about that process?
Speaker 1:uh, it's been not an easy way. It's been obviously when you work for a big company and you have lots of people in place and you can just assign tasks to other people. So it's very different when you start working for yourself and when you start small and you still cannot afford the team, you still have to do everything yourself. It can be overwhelming and that's why so many even don't succeed, because it's really hard, it's not easy. So I can't say it was really easy. I'm still building it up, but at least I managed to, you know, delegate, automate as much as I can.
Speaker 2:When was the moment when you realized that you really need to start hiring or delegating, or you cannot sustain this business anymore?
Speaker 1:I have two young kids and you know, uh, ending up, uh, spending more time with your work than with your kids, it's uh, that's uh something you don't want to do, right. And at the end, when we start our business, we want more freedom. But, again, many business owners that don't realize that it's not actually freedom, it's a trap you put yourself in so, um, I think so many people who listening to us like they could relate yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:I mean, I never thought you know kids would push you to be more smart and mindful of your time, but that's a good way to get there for sure yeah, um, it's, it's uh.
Speaker 1:Funny enough that I started my business when I was actually like eight months pregnant with my second daughter and I think my kids actually inspired me to start. Like I felt like very, uh, you know, inspired, but uh, it's, it wasn't easy.
Speaker 2:It wasn't easy, I must say yeah, but then you managed to build some kind of team for yourself and delegate a task. So I think that's amazing, and whether or not your pregnancy pushed you to do that, I mean it's amazing. At least there are entrepreneurs who still believe that they should do all the work. Maybe they don't have the motivation of two kids. You know that they need to make it work.
Speaker 1:What I'm seeing from you know there's so many to make it work. What I'm seeing from you know there's so many people who actually dream of starting something, or they have dreams, ideas, and they never do. They're just sitting and waiting. If they're in a comfortable situation like if you have a stable job, you feel comfortable to stay where you are and many they just stay and even though they're not happy, they are too scared to go and do what they really want to do. And I think one thing I learned like, whatever I want to do, I just go and do it, I don't wait, and if it fails, it's not my first business. I had another business when I started my first business, when I was 24. It was an e-commerce and I just went and did it and then at some point I decided, okay, it's not working and I had to shut it down. It's okay to fail, you know, but at least you tried yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:And you know something I noticed as well, because we talked about people who like stable jobs. I also noticed that this entrepreneurship life is not for everyone. So, by all means, there's a lot of sacrifices, you have to be brave, you have to get others, so some people are just not cut out for this type of life, and that's okay too, like it's okay to just want something simple, to be honest, I don't blame them.
Speaker 1:I still remember how cool it was when I used to work for a big company. I had my holidays paid, I had my insurance paid, I could travel, I could come home and switch off my mind without thinking about work, because as soon as your office hours are over, you just you know, you go home and you're done. But with your business sometimes it's 24-7 work, sometimes it's sleepless nights it's exactly the same as you have a baby, you know.
Speaker 2:I love that, yeah, but I mean I think the sacrifices are worth it because, again, you can just build so much trust with yourself and so much confidence in your abilities. But I don't think you would ever be able to do that in a corporate job because you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:I must admit that business, actually with running a business, I learned how to discipline myself, because without disciplining yourself you can't, you can't do the business. So I learned myself. Uh, you know, need to wake up early, need to be organized, because you're in charge not only of yourself, you have a team and you have wages to pay. So, um, discipline is the first first thing.
Speaker 2:Start with yourself first so what tell me about your routine? I'm curious to know about your discipline routine yeah, obviously, uh started my morning early.
Speaker 1:It's the key and one of the important factors I just learned is my sanity. It's not all about work. In order not to get burned out, you have to give yourself time to relax. You have to give yourself holidays. You just don't do like 24-7 nonstop, like I used to do. I did that and I got burned so many times when you're just too tired, not motivated to do any of this. So, uh, the most important is always find time for you to relax, always obviously waking up early, doing all the tasks. I write all my tasks in the evening and I have a tools where I have tasks. It's all synchronized with my calendar, so everything is in my calendar and I am this person who gets distracted very easy with things and I multitask a lot. That's one of my problems. So at least when I look at my calendar, at my tasks, it's helping me to get back to the direction I was planning to do.
Speaker 1:I would like to start with some of the challenges mainly business owners are facing. It's when it starts with delegations. I was there as well. I see other business owners having the same issue. It's first. A struggle with delegation is due to fear of losing control or lack of trust in their team, or they think it's much quicker to do the task themselves than explaining to everyone. So this is a really like one of the common challenge, and don't think that nobody can do tasks. You know just what I do for myself and I recommend for others. I do the least and there are stuff I don't like doing, like I don't enjoy doing it, like accounting, for example, is really not my thing. So I like to delegate and I rather spend money than my time on something I don't like.
Speaker 1:And when it comes to mistakes and marketing, obviously it's a delegation, because many business owners they think again oh, I do everything myself, I go to YouTube, I learn a few tricks. They start advertising even themselves. Sometimes they spend so much money and then they come to us and say, hey, I tried everything, nothing works. I tried everything, nothing works. So and then they try to do like you know, when you try to do everything yourself, that's where, first of all, you get disappointed. You think, oh, nothing is working. And second, uh, you get you can't just run everything by yourself, because really hard and you're not achieving your goal.
Speaker 1:And another mistake let's talk about goals a little bit. Um, many business owners will be surprised. They don't have goals and objectives and many starting the business and they don't know. For example, um, I have a client who just started e-commerce, build a beautiful website, spend money on setting everything up, doing license payment, everything you know, and then, when I ask how much products, how many items a day, you have to sell in order to make it work, oh, I didn't thought about this and I see it all the time. So starting a business without clear direction, without clear financial goal in mind or goal you have, it's just you know can lead to a disaster.
Speaker 2:How often do you see first of all at which stage they don't know their financial goals? Do you think they are beginners or do you think that sometimes advanced businesses, they don't have no idea about their financial goals?
Speaker 1:I have a chance to work with so many different niches. Lots of them are startups, startups and it's again like from crazy crypto niche to financial, to any other uh, to e-commerce totally different niches and many of them they even have budgets in place. They have investors. They're just starting but they don't know even if they can monetize it. They don't even know like what will be. They have idea they're inspired by, but they don't know if it's actually going to get them any revenue. So that's one of the. I would say in the last few years, maybe around 40% of businesses were starting and a few years later they just shut because they can't succeed.
Speaker 2:And it's because of the finances that they don't have any income or cash flow yeah, exactly, it's the finances.
Speaker 1:And even some of the really good startups with good investors and good funds, they still fail because the idea just didn't work. So one of the mistakes and how to fix these mistakes is obviously to do a research Look at your competition, look at your product fate look at your services, look what's around before starting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just do some predictions on your goals and what you want to do, right? Yep, I love that. Yep, I love that. So can we go back to because you talked about why entrepreneurs, they don't want to delegate and I think you said fear of losing control or they don't want to spend time to explain the tasks Can we go just go back to to elaborate more on that point? Because, feel like you, you said some very interesting points and you just like ran over them and I'm like, hey, wait, wait, what? So let's, let's talk about the solutions and and let's look at control. You know, like not you know, being able to be in control of your business, and just talk to me about that phenomenon and what do you think is the solution for that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really interesting that I work a lot in different countries and I work a lot in the Middle East. And when you say about control, you would be probably surprised. But there are some businesses we work with and they're big, they're not small. They don't have control over their sales people, they don't have control of what's going on because obviously it's way too big and they don't have processes in place. And again, delegation is one of this.
Speaker 1:So my first advice would be is you know you, you do the delegation, you assign whatever you don't like to do or whatever you can delegate. But then the most important factor is to have process in place and if you have repeatable tasks, you have to write them all down. You have to have exactly clear instructions. We call it SOP standard operation procedures but you need to have it in place. Once you have it in place, it will be easier for you to explain these tasks to the employees you're working.
Speaker 1:If you have all in process, everything is written down. You also need to have the tools. So I would say it's all start with delegation, then um steps to delegate it, meaning, uh, getting ready with sops, getting ready with SOPs, getting ready with documents, basically everything you have, and then the next step would be automation and automation, and some tools can help you to control the people who work for you. There are many tools now in the market and having clear standard procedures in place helping you to understand if your you know if your tasks have been done the right way. So all you need to do is you know it takes time to set it up first, but once you set it up, you can only just adjust and modify and making better later on. What?
Speaker 2:you're saying is because you talked about tasks and like knowing what are the repetitions and you know what things are we are doing. It does mean that has to be someone who does the tasks first in order to start delegating. So you cannot be delegating without knowing the steps to certain tasks, right?
Speaker 1:Exactly you have to do. Obviously, when you start, you have to try everything yourself and then gradually delegating. I can't say that you day one, you start it and you delegate everything. No, it's not, it's not gonna work, of course. You have to do it yourself and then you just document everything you do and that way it would be easier for you to pass this to your employees or if your employees what we're seeing as well, that employees are changing. Today you have staff, tomorrow people changing and going and leaving, so it's a flow of people. You need to have everything documented so you save your time and once you have everything in place, it's very easy to plug anyone into the task.
Speaker 2:I love that. When it comes to hiring an agency, what do you see in your experience that you wish clients would know? Or how do we set realistic expectations as far as their results?
Speaker 1:we set realistic expectations as far as the results, yes. So when it comes to agency and we were let's talk about like red flags and green flags right, unfortunately, this industry is oversaturated with lots of agencies and unfortunately, there are lots of agencies who are promising and over promising and under delivering and unfortunately, lots of business owners, they, they just got disappointed because they tried. There's two things they either tried it themselves and they did it wrong and it's failed, or they tried with some marketing agency and they weren't happy and they, they don't trust anyone else. So I would. My advice would be always to look at, first of all, the lack of transparency. Also, um, don't believe if agency promising to you, uh, you know, get your results tomorrow and get rich in one week, that's not gonna work. Work, be prepared that you also have to do the work, not on the agency, because agency can generate your leads, can make your website beautiful, can help you set emails, automation and all that jazz. But if you, your employees, or you cannot sell or you don't have processes or sales processes in place, you know there's the chances that it may not be succeed. So you cannot blame everything on agency. You have to understand there's lots of work in the background, not only for agency but for you as well. Another factor I would look at is of the proven track record because, again, so many agencies right now they just established, like yesterday and one month ago, it could be a few people who just finished some three-month course and still know zero about marketing. And they're already you know. They're just good at sales, by the way, so don't fall for that. Always ask for a proven track record. Always the proposal should be in place explaining everything would have to be done.
Speaker 1:Communication lack of communication is also important. Again, in digital world is very easy to fool customers because they don't understand all the technicality. Technical, you know terms, so it's very easy to talk and make them believe in something. But you know you need to set clear expectations straight from the gate.
Speaker 1:For example, we would never guarantee results because you know there's nothing in this life you can guarantee and you can always be realistic and do the audit of the business first before give them any estimation. You need to look at the competition, you need to look at where they're, at how long they've been in the market, look at the positioning and lots of factors to consider before even give any promises to the business owners, so always look for clarity. Give any promises to the business owners, so always look for clarity. Straight from the gate agency should explain where you're at right now and where you could be in five, six months' time. And don't fall for shiny objects like we see advertised now on Facebook or social media where they guarantee your results, guarantee to bring your clients tomorrow. You know you have to be realistic and understand the whole process.
Speaker 2:I love those.
Speaker 2:And just to comment on, you know red flags or green flags of agencies, I think one of the green flag is definitely the ability to two things One is to ask the right questions, like when you have someone in front of you and you know exactly what questions you need to ask or what you need to learn, is already showing a lot of authority and knowledge, because you are just there for to figure out whether or not you can help them or this is something that you can take on as an agency.
Speaker 2:So I think one is that. And the second thing is ability to explain your process, because if you have done it I mean that's a cool thing to test whether or not you have done this work before if you can clearly explain, like step by step, what will happen, like you know, you can tell them, okay, first I'm going to be doing my research, like you said. You know, create it, do it, do an audit and and then write your proposal and in a proposal that will be this and this and that, and then you know, once we sign the contract, then we can start taking over your ad accounts. You know, or create you want, like if you can explain the process clearly and you know, without having like dark areas that you don't cover or like having parts that you don't even say. I think that's a good indication as well that you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. And we also happen to have some clients who came to us from other agencies and turns out they didn't know, they didn't have any clue what's going on, but they were doing Google advertising or SEO and the other agency never even sent reports to clients and clients were unaware of what's going on and, uh, and so it's so. So it's so common. I can't explain to you, I can't even describe how frustrating it is when people come to you, and frustrated when they spend, like, uh, good budgets for like a year without even knowing, uh, where the money going to. You know, no reports, no, nothing.
Speaker 1:So I always would like to educate customers and explain to them, especially when it comes to, let's say, advertising or SEO. It's very complicated for them, it's very complicated for a person if if they never, you know, tried it in the past. So for me, it's always complicated for a person if they never tried it in the past. So for me, it's always to have a transparency and always explain and also running advertising from their ad accounts, not from agency ad accounts like some agencies doing, because sometimes what we're seeing that customers, they don't even have access to their own advertising. They don't know what's going on. So I think it's uh it's really important to explain, and actually I feel like that would be my next agenda. Uh is to educate uh business owners understanding the processes, because even if you're hiring marketing agency and you don't understand, it's really easy to fall into the trap and at the end you end up spending so much money and getting zero results.
Speaker 2:I love that you said that I had calls with clients with the same thing. They had no idea what's been going on. They didn't have their own ad accounts and when they wanted to break the contract, you know, they walked away with all their ads that they have been having, you know, running and generating leads for them for a year. And she was like, well, we don't have anything, we don't have access to our account. We don't know what I mean. We know the ads, they are gone, they are going with the agency. The agency is not communicating with us anymore. So so it's just so common, it's insane, it's not cool at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, last year we had one client. Some agency were running for them Google advertising. I think they were spending around $3,000 a month and so when the client wanted to break up with the agency, they didn't want to give them access. And I was wondering why. When I search for them on Google, I can't find them anywhere. And it turns out when we finally, you know, we got an access in a different way and the money they spent on advertising was only $300, not $3,000. And it's been going on for more than a year. And the lady who approached me she's like I have a feeling something is wrong. So she was following her instinct, but she didn't know what's going on. So, yeah, unfortunately that's the industry we are in. So I would really advise for business owners, you know, look who you work with, look at the track records, look how many years they are in the market, what's their experience, who they worked with before. Their expertise is really important because you don't want your budget, your hard-earned money, to be wasted.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And just I want to add here, because you talked about transparency and communication. I would say, if you can, at least every once a week you can communicate with your clients. I think that would suffice as an agency, because if you don't talk to them over a week and they don't hear from you that there's no communication, not like slack, nothing then they will start wondering what's happening. So you can do month reports but some kind of check-in once a week. I think that should be something that you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, monthly reports is mandatory and it's really interesting. Agencies don't do it, so many don't, and, for example, with our agency, depending on the services, that we have dedicated specialists talking to clients via email in case if clients have any questions or anytime they can just ask, so there will be someone who can answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so important as well. Okay, so we also talked about expectations. So we also talked about expectations and you mentioned that if you, if you get like some kind of ad that results will come tomorrow, then it's a red flag. So can you explain a little bit about that?
Speaker 1:Yes, I get a lot of this, especially when we work with a search engine optimization, seo, work with a search engine optimization SEO, and I've seen lots of advertising as well, where business owners get promises that they would get a ranking of their maps or website within only one month or two months. But this is not true. It takes, depending on the business, depending on the area. Depending on the business, depending on the area, depending on the location and competition. Uh, it could take from three months and it could take up to two years. So obviously no one can guarantee you this type of results until they do audit of the business and in fact we can't even guarantee so.
Speaker 1:Expectations straight from the gate should be clear. I always say to clients I cannot guarantee you anything because tomorrow Google can change its algorithms and then you know we are not, it's not in our hands. Same thing could be done with advertising. Things can change, something can change tomorrow. So it takes time. So I don't don't fall into the trap into uh, get results tomorrow when you get customers tomorrow. That's not gonna happen. There's no special appeal.
Speaker 2:You know you have to work for it exactly, and I love that you say that because, um, I'm coming from the paid ads on facebook space and it's even though you can generate results fairly quickly. I think what's important to understand is that you have to be in it for the long term. So you have to think about what budget you can invest, at least for six months to a year, in your campaign continuously in order for you to see sustainable, sustainable results. And if you just come here you want two-week campaign, it's not gonna work. I mean you can still get leads in two weeks, but I mean you have to kind of be in there and for the long game and test out different things to see what's working for you the best yes, uh, with payday it's the same.
Speaker 1:I think the first thing is the mindset of business owners, because they think that within one month they get sales, they get results and everyone will be happy. And after one month, so many just quit and cancel because getting disappointed, oh, I can't sell. Yes, it's a cash flow. Yes, it's not, depending again on the niche and how quick is the sales cycle but you have to give it at least six months to make it work, because it's it's. Also I always recommend actually to do both uh, for fast results is a paid advertising and in parallel to do seo or change in optimization, because this is something working for the long term. So it's, and it helps. You know it's compromising with each other. It really helps because when you advertise, it helps you to find more people quickly.
Speaker 1:But if people don't know you, they would not buy from you. Okay, so when somebody go and search for you on Google, let's say I saw something in advertising and I would go to Google and search for this company. And if this company has zero online presence, you know the chances that I would buy are very low. So people would go and look at the reviews, people would go and search and google. So it's always there is a, you know, long-term game and short-term game and it has to be combined exactly and I love that you said that's.
Speaker 2:That's such a great, you know tip as well, to combine these two efforts together because, again, it depends on what you sell. If you're selling like a ten dollar, how to create instagram for instagram photographer, I don't know. I see those courses that quick buy right. Um, that maybe the facebook page. I check reviews and that's kind of giving me a good indication about the business. But then I go on google. You know, if anything is more expensive than ten dollars I might think about okay, you know, I want to know this company, are they legit, like what they have? And then I go on google. So I love the tip of combining the seo and your reviews as well with the facebook ad side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is something, uh, lots of businesses are actually ignoring, and if we talk about the one of the marketing mistakes is, uh, ignoring seo is one of the mistakes, because, once you stop advertising, nobody see you. But, uh, if you want your business to be still there in five years time and you have a long vision and you know long-term goals, uh, you have to start working on your online presence now. Yes, it takes time, yes, it costs money, uh, but that's the way, and I always like to say if you don't have your online presence today, you're at risk of losing your business tomorrow yeah, that's such, such a good one.
Speaker 2:I also wanted to add here the ROI, because we talked about long game. We talked about, you know, having long-term thinking when it comes to business. I, when, when clients come to me and they say like, well, uh, you know, I'm, I have a budget, but I only have budget for a couple of months and this has to work out, I usually don't end up working together because I don't do like this has to work out, type of mentality, right, you know, if you think that, think that's your last chance, or else you're not going to make it in business, then you have a big problem and that energy is just not going to attract the right customers.
Speaker 1:Yes, here I agree with you. Our agency also. We are at this point. We do not work with everyone. We work, we're selecting who we work with. And, uh, on our first initial call um with my assistant, there's some questions we are asking. And, uh, if, if clients are not ready again for the long, even if you advertise, yes, you can get quick results? Yes, you can. You may have a have a quick sale if you're lucky, uh, but with a mentality like this, you're not ending up anywhere. So it's really important, the mindset is really important. You need to understand that it takes time. It takes time to build your authority, it takes time to build your trust and even if you're advertising and you get quick results, you need to still understand that it takes time.